Report: Bike Lanes Will Slow Traffic on Figueroa, Colorado

The LADOT data on the potential impact of bike lanes is clear, but local experts and business owners disagree over what slower traffic would mean for Northeast L.A.

A review of the City of Los Angeles' Master Bike Plan predicts that most intersections along major thoroughfares in Highland Park and Eagle Rock would experience significant traffic delays as a result of installing new bicycle lanes.

However, business owners and bicycle advocates are split on the issue of whether those delays would be harmful to local communities.


The graph below shows the current wait times for vehicles at major intersections along Figueroa Street and Colorado Boulevard as calcuated by the Los Angeles Department of Transportation (LADOT), and the level of service grade for each of those intersections. According to the LADOT, "level of service" is a qualitative measure used to describe the condition of traffic flow, ranging from excellent conditions at LOS A to overloaded conditions at level of service F. Level of service D is recognized as the minimum acceptable level of service in the City of Los Angeles."

Street Intersection Current Grade A.M Current Time at Intersection A.M. Current Grade P.M. Current Time at Intersection P.M North Figueroa Colorado C 25.7 C 20.6 North Figueroa York C 24.9 C 28.8 North Figueroa Pasadena B 19.7 B 13.2 North Figueroa Avenue 26 D 54.1 D 38.9 North Figueroa San Fernando B 15 B 16 Street Intersection Current Grade A.M. Current Time at Intersection A.M. Current Grade P.M. Current Time at Intersection P.M. Colorado SR-2 NB Ramps B 17.2 B 16.7 Colorado Broadway B 13.2 B 17.1 Colorado Sierra Villa C 29.4 F 246.6 Colorado Eagle Rock D 37 F 264.4 Colorado SR-134 Ramps C 23.3 B 14.7 Colorado North Figueroa C 25.7 C 20.6

The following two charts show the increase in traffic stop times along North Figueroa and Colorado, and the change in level of service grade.

Street Intersection Potential Grade After Bike Lanes A.M. Potential Time at Intersection After Bike Lanes A.M. Potential Grade After Bike Lanes P.M. Potential Time at Intersection After Bike Lanes P.M. North Figueroa Colorado E 56.2 D 40.1 North Figueroa York E 66.4 D 46.1 North Figueroa Pasadena C 25.3 B 13.4 North Figueroa Avenue 26 F 149.3 D 45.7 North Figueroa San Fernando B 14.3 C


Street Intersection Potential Grade After Bike Lanes A.M. Potential Time at Intersection After Bike Lanes A.M. Potential Grade After Bike Lanes P.M. Potential Time at Intersection After Bike Lanes P.M. Colorado SR-2 NB Ramps B 17.3 B 16.7 Colorado Broadway B 12.8 B 17 Colorado Sierra Villa F 94.7 F 471.5 Colorado Eagle Rock F 111.4 F 453 Colorado SR-134 Ramps B 19.4 B 19 Colorado North Figueroa E 56.2 D 40.1

According to report, which was released earlier in January, the installation of bike lanes on North Figueroa Street would result in "potentially significant" traffic impacts at the intersection of Colorado Boulevard, York Boulevard and Avenue 26.

The LADOT data shows that all but one North Figueroa intersection--San Fernando Road--would experience at least some increase in traffic stop times as a result of the bike lane installation. Many of those intersections, including Colorado, York, Pasadena and Avenue 26, would see their level of service grades drop as a result of the bike lane installation.

Colorado Boulevard would also experience delays. For example, the intersection at Eagle Rock Boulevard would be downgraded from a D to an F grade. However, the report also predicts some improvement along Colorado, with bike lanes leading to minor decreases in stop times at Broadway and the SR-134 Ramp.

Data in Dispute

Mark Vallianatos, a professor of law and director of the Urban & Environmental Policy Institute at Occidental College, said that the data provided by LADOT appeared to be flawed in at least two instances in the EIR’s “Transportation, Traffic, and Safety” section.

“They’ve clearly made some mistakes on two intersections on Colorado,” said Vallianatos, pointing out that that the average delay during peak rush hour in the evenings on Colorado and Sierra Villa Drive (near Eagle Rock Plaza) is 246.6 seconds (4.11 minutes), and the delay on the Colorado-Eagle Rock Boulevard intersection is even higher: 264.4 seconds (4.40 minutes). The figures Vallianatos refers to are in bold above.

“To me that’s clearly an error because you don’t have to go through four lights to go through Eagle Rock and Colorado,” said Vallianatos. “It’s just incomprehensible. We think they messed up and moved up a decimal point.”

In fact, two hours after Vallianatos received a stakeholders’ copy of the draft EIR from the Department of City Planning on Jan. 17, the professor e-mailed David J. Somers, of the department’s Policy Planning and Historic Resources Division.

“Is there is an error in table 4.5-2 for Eagle Rock Blvd. and Sierra Villa Drive in the PM peak hours?” Vallianatos asked Somers, according to the e-mail correspondence that the professor forwarded to Patch.

“The stated delays of 246 and 264 seconds are ten times higher than the rest of Colorado Blvd. delays and almost ten times higher than the AM peak delays for those intersections,” Vallianatos added in his e-mail. “They also do not make sense based on experience driving on Colorado for more than a decade. Perhaps the figures are supposed to be 24.6 seconds and 26.4 seconds?”

Although Vallianatos has not heard back from Somers, the professor said that Jeff Jacoberger, a consultant with Eagle Rock’s Take Back the Boulevard initiative, has been in touch with the Department of City Planning to see if it can “clarify the figures because they seem to suggest that Colorado is more horrendously backed up than many places in West L.A., which is not the case.”

What the Data Means for Locals

Just what the increased traffic delays along North Figueroa's and Colorado's major intersections will mean for local commuters and business owners is still very much up for debate among bicycle advocates and local proprietors.

Richard Risemberg, a Los Angeles based cycling advocate and the proprietor of Bicycle Fixation, said that many residents favor slower traffic on their streets.

"Residents and business usually want traffic to go slower on their streets," Risemberg said. "It creates less noise, it creates less pollution unless it's stop and go. It allows for more possibility to see something interesting and pull over."

He added that the increased traffic time would serve to slow down drivers who use North Figueroa Street and Colorado Boulevard as a thoroughfare to destinations outside of the neighborhoods.

"The ones who want to speed are usually cut through drivers who want to exploit local streets as alternatives to freeways and arterial streets," Risemberg said.

Risemberg also noted slower traffic flow would result in better safety for drivers, pedestrians and cyclists.

"Drivers using surface roads as if they were freeways are where the problems start," he said.

John Neese, owner of Galco's Soda Pop Stop, who recently wrote about his opposition to bike lanes on York Boulevard, took a different stance from Risemberg. He said bike lanes have been "very bad" for business on York.

He disagreed with Risemberg's argument that slower traffic would encourage motorists to more frequently stop at local businesses.

"The bike lanes on York Boulevard are causing problems for business because when people see traffic backed up, they just drive on to Meridian Street to bypass it," he said.

Neese also took issue with the lack of input business owners had in determining whether bike lanes were right for York Boulevard.

"One day, it just happened," he said.

HPGringo February 02, 2013 at 10:07 PM
gotta say Frank's Cameras is one of my favorite places in the HP, def take a look in there it's real real cool
Tsalagi1 February 18, 2013 at 05:29 AM
The tone taken in these comments regarding families, the elderly, and the disabled by the pro bike lane folks is disturbing to say the least. One can cut the disdain felt toward these groups with a knife. I suggest that you tone down your hatred of those in traditional family units. I don't know much about this subject yet, but I felt an immediate repugnance concerning the comments made by the pro bike lane people.
MaxUtility February 18, 2013 at 05:59 AM
Respectfully, I really think you're completely misunderstanding what we're saying. I made one sarcastic comment "laughing about forcing everyone into bike lanes." This is in response to comment after comment claiming that this is what bike lane proponents actually want, claims that all we care about is "forcing these lanes down people throats", claims that we're only pushing them in order to get rich selling bikes, claims that we have made up fake scientific traffic studies in order to further our evil agenda, etc. If you would read what bike line proponents are actually saying, it is that we believe these changes will make NELA a safer, more pleasant, more vibrant, healthy community for everyone, even for those who will never ride a bike. Believe it or not, we actually live in "traditional family units" too and worry about our kids, out elderly parents, our disabled friends. Can you feel my disdain cutting like a knife now?
Tsalagi1 February 18, 2013 at 06:59 AM
A quote from above by Josef Bray-Ali: "Why don't we just open up more parking spaces and "relax zoning" to help all those poor moms making multiple Walgreens trips with their kids and wheelchair bound elderly relatives? Oh wait - that is exactly what we've been doing for over 50 years in this community. Tell me, how has that served local business? Is it much of a surprise that the former site of Highland Parks' anchor retail on N. Figueroa is now a strip mall with a hamburger joint, a Little Caesers, and an El Pavo bakery on it? Not to disparage these businesses - but they do not compare to what existed on the site prior to the complete abdication of the right of way to your hypothetical long suffering house wives with disabled kids to take to the Quick-E-Mart 6 times a day. When this community (willingly in most cases) turned N. Figueroa over to high speed motoring - it began a long decline in the retail prospects of local businesses. It is an old red herring from the 1960's to pull up all the long suffering car-only moms out there schlepping kids to the market and school - yet why would they need to if the streets were actually safe enough for disabled people and kids to get around? Why should they have so much distance to cover in a community built around walkable distances to the streetcar?" The above quoted comment is downright hateful. You might have been sarcastic, but the quoted comment here by Bray-Ali is hateful no matter how you look at it.
rebecca niederlander February 18, 2013 at 07:19 AM
There will indeed be numerous impacts if a lane of car traffic is taken away that have nothing to do with increased bike traffic. As someone who lives less that 100 feet from Colorado Blvd., I am very much looking forward to less noise and air pollution. And as a mother and as someone who can not ride a bike due to a disability, I can honestly say I welcome the bike lane along Colorado even though I personally will never be able to use it. I know the lane will be used by more than just speeding single rider bikes, but will also be used by caregivers with trail-a-bikes like this from Ciclavia: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacamod/7086186913/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacamod/7086158885/in/photostream/ and with bike trailers like this: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacamod/7086185537/in/photostream/ and by people with kid seats attached: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacamod/6940101158/in/photostream/ and maybe, if we are super lucky, the creative riders will come because they know the area is bike friendly. They will come BECAUSE of our well used lanes and they will spend money at our businesses. And lastly, call it a pipe dream, but how awesome would it be to have these folks back again: http://www.flickr.com/photos/lacamod/6940085220/in/photostream/ cops who patrol our streets on bikes are so much more likely to know the areas well!
Hooper Humperdink February 18, 2013 at 07:23 AM
rebecca niederlander February 18, 2013 at 05:46 PM
To be honest, complaining about a bike lane coming into a neighborhood because it may reduce your travel time by as much as four minutes is like complaining that you have to pay taxes that go to schools when you don't have kids. Many things go into making a neighborhood a desirable place to live. I would have assumed that more people living in NELA...a glorious place filled with diversity of ethnicity, socio-economics, age, religion, education and more...would be more tolerant of people wanting to explore road diversity. And speaking of socio-economic diversity, many people who ride bikes can not afford cars. Anyone who thinks that the City of Los Angeles would spend this much money of a whim of a middle class few is delusional. This effort is supported by the City because bicycling is a well-used model of transport for many people throughout the world who--for whatever reason-- can not or choose not to use a car. And guess what else slows down car traffic at intersections? The Gold Line. Know what makes it take even longer? People crossing the street, whether by themselves or with strollers, kids, wheelchairs, dogs on leash. And the elderly, sometimes they take a really long time getting their bodies from point A to point B. The horror of having to be tolerant of such really makes me want to move to a place where everyone is the same and all do the same thing. NOT.
HPGringo February 18, 2013 at 06:23 PM
@Rebecca, Hello I am a biker and a monthly tap card buyer. What woud you feel about having the bike lanes on Marmion Way instead of Fig.? I believe this to be a safer option. You bring up a good point about the gold line slowing down traffic, at rush hour it often extends the line of cars to Avenue 59 which will become worse if that is made in to a single lane in each direction. I think a great bike lane could exist on Marmion way to Piedmont and then at York could continue on Fig. this would complete the 'backbone' and also connect the bikers more directly with the Goldline, and make Figueroa shopping very accessible as well, wondering what your thoughts would be regarding this.
kelly thompson February 18, 2013 at 08:49 PM
Ironically the reasons sited against bike lanes on Fig are the reasons we advocate for them. Schools, businesses and pedestrians along Fig are why it should not be a fast traveling thoroughfare. By slowing vehicle speed down on Fig we can create a safer main street through our neighborhood. No matter how much data is provided, you that oppose the lanes still think that your 'opinion' is more accurate. I am convinced more than ever that the 3 men opposing lanes at the LADOT meeting last week have no concern for the community or creating an ecologically, safe forward thinking place to live. Non critical thinkers that operate on the fear of change much less one that would threaten their beloved car culture. Negative, curmudgeons armed with no facts or data just spreading unwarranted fear of progress. As a car owner and cyclist, moving here from Chicago. They didn't have bike lanes then but at the time traffic speeds in the city were considerably slower than in LA and jay walking was common place cars just stopped for pedestrians unlike LA. I gave up my bike here due to safety, cars going 50mph between lights plus the mentality of if a car fit's it's a lane. I see more aggressive drivers here than any other American city I have visited. We sincerely need to slow down in more ways than one and perhaps our automobiles should be the first place we look to. Slowing down is a positive in our neighborhoods not negative.
kelly thompson February 18, 2013 at 08:55 PM
Now, I actually ride my bike instead of driving most times "due to bike lanes". I also ride York bike Lanes and ride to Antiqua. So these 1 hour surveys and unsubstantiated opinions I challenged with data but also by the opinions of us who actually do what you say no one does. Someone actually suggest riding on the side walk. Crazy... I think it's illegal and more dangerous for pedestrians than ever. Ask any business owner what happens when a skate boarder or bike ride past their front door and one of their customers or their child gets hit. But of course this is no inconvenience to the Auto so it must be ok. As far as alternate routes suggested. Who will these be safer for? I don't buy that at all. I think that drivers just don't want to be inconvenienced and are willing to sacrifice progress for their selfish 3 minutes. For some reason the idea of putting bike lanes on less traveled roads will be safer for bikers is just b.s. In order to create a more pedestrian friendly community we must slow the traffic down on our main streets of commerce. This will invite others to slow down and stop. Their is plenty of empty parking in the lots behind the stores so that shouldn't be an issue. As a biker I also want to take the most direct route possible. If I can bike safe and still drive on Figueroa I see no reason for finding an alternative. The routes have been studied and chosen as the best way to connect our city. We should strive to be a destination not a thoroughfare.
Claire Latane February 18, 2013 at 09:01 PM
As a single mom, regular bus rider, resident of Eagle Rock, and regular patron of ER and HP local businesses, I want to answer Creper's question, above. Yes, I do bicycle to work, but not nearly as much as I would like to. I also own a car, though I prefer to take the bus, walk or bike for economic, environmental and health reasons. I moved close to a bus stop so I could bus to work... but I would rather ride my bicycle. I bike when I muster the courage to take Colorado Blvd on my five mile commute to Pasadena. I regularly take my kids to Glendale, HP, Pasadena, and LA. I would love to be able to get to all of those places safely by bicycle. As silly as it sounds, I do feel safer with a line of paint separating me and my children from the cars ... especially on major roads like Colorado and Figueroa. The stretch of Fig between Colorado and York has tight enough lanes that I avoid it on my bike except on weekends, and even then the cars pass too closely for comfort. I also feel safer when even one more bicycle is on the road with me, knowing we are more visible in numbers. While I am not as familiar with the Marmion Way route suggested above, I wouldn't mind more bike lanes on roads like Yosemite and Fletcher, connecting the major roads with our neighborhoods and schools. But I also feel that one of the big advantages of bike lanes on Colorado and Fig is the potential to slow traffic and make a safer, more enjoyable pedestrian environment for families like mine.
Anders Lansing February 19, 2013 at 12:24 AM
I agree with Rebecca.
Tsalagi1 February 19, 2013 at 02:19 AM
Mr. Bray-Ali, there is no need to yell. I did not say I was a victim. I said I did not agree with your demeanor. I, in fact, agree that if the bike lanes and the vehicle lanes are properly designed and the lights are phased properly then I think we can all appreciate our individual differences. However, yelling and making disparaging remarks of those less physically fortunate than you are gets us nowhere. I don't understand why you must yell to get a point across. Your issues with authority figures is not my or anyone else's issues but your own. I would not know why you you lump me in there, as I have no authority over you.
David Fonseca (Editor) February 19, 2013 at 03:37 AM
Hey all, I just wanted to ask if we could bring the conversation back to the issue at hand, and refrain from personal attacks. There are plenty of readers who are adding valuable information to this conversation, and I have no plans to lock the comments.
Creper Chimone February 19, 2013 at 08:33 PM
yes it will indeed slow traffic, when the gold line train passes on avenue 61 with one lane the cars will be backed up double in both directions, this will not be a good situation for anyone especially when rush hour, and it will not be safe and it will congest the side streets too. I take the bus and the train and also have a bike but I don't have a car but i do not want my neighborhood congested with more traffic because 25 bikers thing they know best becasue of some studys they did. people make fun of me for counting people on bike while at antigua but this is the same thing that your studys that you quote from do. the only people that show up to your meetings are mostly supporters because it is only known to them no one makes an outreach to the community to inform them of meetings if they did you may have other views there. but because of the bullying nature of some of the bike lane people like Josef I doubt many people who oppose would like to speak since they'd be afreaid of being called names, or made fun of because they are older or overweight.
kelly thompson February 19, 2013 at 09:26 PM
Creper/ There is a hearing tonight regarding bike lanes on West Side. I suggest you attend to at least understand the survey process. Then you will see that an hour in a coffee shop is not an accurate or comparable survey. Further more we all have to seek out information on hearings just like you this site should put to rest any future excuse for not knowing of meetings. If you want your voice heard by the city you must go to the meetings. They are not secret. Tonight/ 6:00pm till 8:30pm LADOT Western Parking Enforcement Office, 11214 W. Exposition Blvd., Los Angeles 90064 For more information on hearings check this site. http://www.la-bike.org/ Also please take note of RN's comment above. "Anyone who thinks that the City of Los Angeles would spend this much money of a whim of a middle class few is delusional. This effort is supported by the City because bicycling is a well-used model of transport for many people throughout the world who--for whatever reason-- can not or choose not to use a car."
Creper Chimone February 19, 2013 at 09:43 PM
thank you kelly that is nice of you to mention the meeting tonight, but my main concern is witht the bike lanes on figueroa becaue i live there. and that meeting was posted in the patch with the wrong date and was also on ash wednesday when most people in this neighborhood are at church, there were 4 evening services at my church that night all were full. but I hope you understand posting the meeting on bike websites doesnt help people to know about it especially those who are probably against the figueroa bike lanes because they do not go to la-bike website. maybe meetings can be posted at the library , correctly on the patch, at the rec center and in spanish language newspapers so more of the community could hear about them. but i appreciate you getting that information to me.
kelly thompson February 19, 2013 at 10:07 PM
We are all only responsible for ourselves. If you choose to go to church on the day of the meeting that's your choice. If you choose to understand the surveys and voice a well informed opinion on bike lanes that option is still open to you tonight. I found out about the meeting on facebook. I wasn't invited by any organization. I just went. I say if you want these meeting posted in a specific spot that you 'do it'. Don't expect that anyone else will do it for you. Their are no excuses except those you make. I hope you will someday understand the ecological and health nature of these simple solutions and realize they are positive and that it's vital for us all to think globally. Not just for a few minutes of inconvenience.
HPGringo February 19, 2013 at 10:26 PM
Kelly, Creper brings up a very valid point that you have treated quite disrespectfully. The Patch did misquote the meeting time, and the meeting was held on Ash Wednesday which is one of the most important observances in the Christian calendar. The majority of residents in Highland Park are Christians. For you to gloss over this fact and claim there is a choice between someones religious beliefs and a meeting about bike lanes is very insensitive. Also if you look at the other post regarding bike lanes in The Patch you will see that David Fonseca has admitted to posting the incorrect information and also admitted that it was not properly corrected in a timely matter. I also take issue to your opening remark that we are only responsible for ourselves, I think we all are responsible to our community which we live in. I think if all people have your individualistic way of thinking then many of our community's problems will never be solved.
MaxUtility February 19, 2013 at 10:47 PM
@Creper - The Los Angeles Bike Plan is not the result of "25 bikers" who did some studies and "think they know best". It was a multi-year process involving LADOT, Planning Dept, Street Services, the Mayor's office, multiple city councilmen's offices, numerous bicycling and transit advocacy groups, internationally respected transportation planning consultants hired by the city, as well as the input of thousands of LA citizens either online or at one of the multiple public meetings held at various times and in various parts of the city. I can confirm from direct experience the process was in no way slanted toward the preferences of a handful of biking advocates, but was the result of research, consultation, and a lot of compromise. I would absolutely agree that the city doesn't do a good job getting public input, especially from people of color, non-english speakers, or those who are not politicially connected. But this isn't unique to the bike plan. In fact, the outreach on this has far exceeded what is normally done for changes to our roads and transport systems. On a more personal note, you seem to love throwing out veiled insults about cyclists whom you seem to think only care about themselves, routinely make up fake reports to support their cause (i.e. lie), and want to screw poor, brown, old, disabled, families, etc. etc. But yeah bike advocates are so scary and call people fat and that's why no one speaks against bike lanes at the one meeting you went to.
MaxUtility February 19, 2013 at 10:55 PM
@HPGringo - As the city has made clear, there are a variety of methods of commenting on the bike lane implementation, one of which is to attend a one of the several public meetings. I don't think anyone here will defend LADOT or the city's general level of public outreach for this or any project. However, I will say that in my limited direct experience, there has been a lot more outreach conducted on this than in any other project I've been involved in. And a lot of that outreach has been done specifically by bike advocacy groups trying to get people aware of the plans and meetings over the multiple years this has been worked on. In fact, several groups made concerted efforts to get people who don't speak English and/or live in lower income neighborhoods involved as these groups are typically left out of the planning process entirely. If you don't like how DOT does things, join the club. But don't blame bike advocates for the city government's insular, "we know best - you'll take what we give you" attitude.
HPGringo February 19, 2013 at 11:04 PM
thanks Max, If you read my post again you will see that I was commenting on the previous poster's insensitive remarks. I said nothing about not liking anything DOT does nor did I anywhere blame bike advocates for anything just merely again astounded by some of the insensitive remarks people feel are ok and are left unchecked. But thank you for your response.
Hill Driver February 20, 2013 at 12:41 AM
Maybe we could organize a " Patch Study" of the existing bike lanes. Teams of people, both for and against the lanes could spend time at certain points along the existing bike lanes, and the proposed bike lanes. They could count the number of riders and make a detailed commentary of the area they observed, traffic flow, pedestrian traffic, bikers going into local businesses,etc.. We could then see how successful the existing bike lanes are and have a real community input into this decision making process. But here is my sad prediction. The mostly pro bike lane people will not want to participate, because the numbers will show what a waste this is, but it would be a great exercise in community involvement. I see a number of links to studies done in other cities in these comments, why not do our own study about our own community?
nonoise February 20, 2013 at 12:57 AM
Talk about congestion? No one talks about all the cars that flood the Cypress Park neighborhood around Divine Saviour Catholic Church every Sunday and Saturday and every event day. There are so many cars that there is no parking at all so the church members park in the red zone, park in driveways and park next to fire hydrants and double park. Why doesn't someone educate them and have them ride their bicycles to church and leave our driveways alone!! They have no education!! Please next time bicycle to your church and stay out of my driveway! And, make sure you leave your bicycle in the church parking lot, not in my driveway!
HPGringo February 20, 2013 at 12:57 AM
thank you Kelly for not taking responsibility for anything you wrote in your insensitive comments. I am a part of the cycling community, and attended Tuesday's meeting if you have read any of my posts you would know this. But I don't find the need for the type of mean spirited comments that you write you.
kelly thompson February 20, 2013 at 12:58 AM
Sorry you don't agree that you are ultimately responsible for your own actions and life. Have you ever heard the saying you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink it. That's what I see here. The cycling community has done nothing but try to include and improve the community. If you don't want to participate other than here on 'the patch' no one can make you. Thus you are ultimately responsible for your own self and the actions you take. I said if you don't want to got to the meeting that is tonight and participate you have that choice. So don't blame the patch, your church, the bikers or anyone else if that's not what you want to do. The information and opportunity is out there. It's up to you and only you how you choose to utilize it. That does not mean to ignore community as you suggest, I never said or meant that.
kelly thompson February 20, 2013 at 01:18 AM
Also their was a person at the meeting with ash on their forehead obviously they participated in ash Wednesday and came to the meeting. So to assume I'm insensitive to religion is yet another distraction from the real issue and not true. It is obviously possible to go to church and participate in the hearings if that's what you choose to do. I take responsibility for my community and my role in it. Instead of blaming the community for not posting in the place you want 'them' to, the patch, the bikers and the rest of the community, perhaps you should take on some responsibility of your own. Again a choice, complain and blame others or take the time to find out how things work, where meetings are and post where "you" think it best suits your community.
HPGringo February 20, 2013 at 01:23 AM
Oh, wait you were at the meeting too? I think maybe now I know who you are, hah, wow yeah this all makes sense now.
kelly thompson February 20, 2013 at 01:31 AM
I didn't speak at the meeting so you most likely don't know who I am. ;)
kelly thompson February 20, 2013 at 01:36 AM
Haa, I think you should do it. People will participate if they want or not. I'm still interested in exploring the existing surveys by LADOT. I could use to go to another one of those hearings myself as their are some things that aren't quite clear to me. Good Luck do it!


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