This was a very open meeting by "Friends" standards, in that I was allowed to show up at all, as well as respond when Stan Moore called me a liar. I think my point, that what remains of the "Friends" is a very small, very parochial group of diehards with nothing like 70+ groups supporting them, has been made.

What remains to be seen is whether this astroturf organization is going to scrape up the bucks so Dan Wright can finally sue someone. I'm looking forward to hearing more about what happened after I was ejected.

Great reporting. We are eager to read more about that meeting and organization. Thank you.

As with most reporting, the clip does not show what got Stan upset and the conduct of the Neighbor prior to the meeting and before the clip started.

As with any public meeting - come participate but do not try to sidetrack it as a personal vendetta against a cause or a person...usual is respect breeds respect.

Schraff's and some other board members' positions are well known but not supported by many from all of NELA, Mt.Wash and neighborhood councils. If I go to his meeting, I would be respectful of the purpose of the meeting and use my public comments, etc. If Schraff was really interested in finding out the Friends plans he would have been better off just to listen respectfully as other pro-ANC people are and used the info/Dis-Info to their own purposes.

Now ANC has been in discussions with JHuizar and the Firends had participated in and cooperated with JH and Occi. but the May letter from ANC clearly shows that ANC wants to get rid of the whole thing. Since I have worked with several museums I believe I know the background and many of the reasons...I don't know Jackie that much - but met Gene back in the 40s and still remember comments regarding trust and cowboys' word is his honor.

Friends are focusing on more negotiations and actions, both non-legal and legal this year

If anyone (Pro/Con) wants a more detailed, respectful discussion of the SWMuseum and the ANC, send me an email reply: ctwiliams@yahoo,com and I would need at least two hours.

Tom

Clyde -- thanks for your comments. A full report on the meeting is coming soon. However, I'm wondering what context is absent from the story/video? As the story points out, the debate began as Mr. Schraff was leaving the Ebell Club, at which point Mr. Moore accused him of lying.

Interesting reading. Poor reaction. :( Stan Moore looked obviously upset at their recent losses at the hands of the city council, but to take it out on Mr. Shraff was very immature and rather obvious. Makes me want to learn more and Ii think we all need to after seeing that clip! Where might i find a bare bones version of both sides arguments for or against the planned expansion?

Very immature behavior to ask Mr. Shraff to leave, particularly as he was representing the MWA.

Hard to take sides. Everyone in that room are committed neighborhood activists. I see Ann Walnum there, a personal hero, Rob Shraff, and many others.

@MOJO Start here, this recaps the last month of action. http://highlandpark-ca.patch.com/articles/southwest-museum-report-recapping-the-last-month There's numerous links to stories in here, and many of those stories have the "bare bones" plans.

Speaking of fringe, how often does Mr. Schraff actually state facts in his arguments, much like above. If the "Friends" are so fringe, why does he continue making up new names for them, continue to spout commentary without facts, and continue to even acknowledge the existence of a group that is so horribly "fringe?"

Here are some facts.

The "Friends" named themselves, then became a "coalition", then split, and are now led by a self-appointed "steering committee." At last night's meeting we also learned that the only organizations that seemingly now support the "Friends" are the Mt. Washington Homeowner's Alliance and the Highland Park Heritage Trust. There was a representative of the Arroyo Arts Collective last night, but I find it hard to believe this organization is against a mixed use cultural center with space for artists. In any case, the fact is these were the only three organizations that bothered to show up for this critical planning meeting. (Oh, and a couple of neighborhood councils, our local versions of which seem particularly dysfunctional and, in fact, are powerless in the face of the city council.) No letters or messages of support, no checks supporting legal action, no representatives last night, no representatives in any of the meetings at city hall over the last month - nothing, in fact. So where are these "70+ community and civil rights" organizations claimed by the "Friends"? Could the fact be that all they are is a five-year old list on the "Friends" website? (Also, claiming support of "civl rights" groups while trashing the Autry's native american supporters is pretty difficult to square, factually.)

Here's another way to look at a fact. For over 5 years, 70+ community and civil rights organizations have supported and continue to support the Friends of the Southwest Museum in the efforts to keep the Southwest Museum open.

Here are facts: Charles Lummis spent a good portion of his life gathering culturally and historic artifacts of the Southwest. He built a wonderful building to house and display them. That the city, county, state, or National Association of Museums has not shown stewardship or respect of this collection is a shame on them and a pity.

You are correct that the collection is the most important issue in this controversy. Indeed, the Autry's stewardship of the collection since the merger, at which time the collection was in desperate shape, and had been for decades, is exactly why the native american community, the National Association of Museums and people who care more about the artifacts than local business and property values continue to support their efforts. I also have to say that in general I find the recent hagiography of Lummis is not based on historical facts, but this is perhaps best left for another day. Today, the question for the "Friends" about the organizations they claim support them remains: "Where are they?"

Likewise, Mr. Schraff, where was all of your support at the meeting on Wednesday night? There were many more Friends of the Southwest Museum Coalition Members there than were Enemies of the Southwest Museum Coalition Members (i.e, you). Also, what is happening with the Southwest Society? Where is the money that they have been raising?

By the way Mr. Schraff, in your entire response to me of one run-on paragraph, here are the entirety of the facts that you listed:

1) "The "Friends" named themselves..."
Your use of quotes, however, is grammatically incorrect and used solely for impact.

2) The neighborhood councils are powerless in the face of City Council.
Duh. Everyone knows that except many of the NC electeds. But they are officially still an arm of the city per the charter.

That's it. The rest of your wonderful monologue is nothing more than listening to yourself spout suppositions. If you can back up any of your "facts" with real facts more people might listen to you.

If you were there Wednesday, then you know that I am president of the Mt. Washington Association, and that we are one of the organizations still claimed by this version of the "Friends" as supporters. In fact, we were one of only four such organizations to show up, and so represented something like 25% of the "coalition" that night - if the coalition was real. So who are you and who do you represent, other than a small, rather shrill, self-appointed astroturf group? Also, the fact is councilman Huizar killed the Southwest Society by pursuing a "strategy" urged on him by the "Friends" - another in a long series of winning "Friends" positions.

What Susan doesn't know is that Rob Schraff has also tangled with her "friend" who helped her with Divine Saviour Church's legal action against her. But that is because Susan is far too busy lecturing others and not paying attention.

Mr. Schraff, how many Autry supporters were at the last two meetings at City Hall, and how many members of the Friends of the Southwest Museum Coalition? Mr. Schraff, as I asked before, how many Autry supporters were at the Coalition meeting on Wednesday night? The answer to both of those questions is precisely one, and that one is you.

Mr. Schraff, what is the official position of the Mount Washington Association, as per a formal vote? I will answer for you and say that the last official vote of the Mount Washington Association was to be in support of the Friends of the Southwest Museum Coalition. (By the way, the coalition did in fact name itself, as most organizations do. Who else would, the Autry National Center?)

Finally, Mr. Schraff, what is your detailed plan for reviving the Southwest Museum of the American Indian, and does it include saving any of Mount Washington campus? I will tell you what your detailed plan is: you do not have one.

For someone with so many things to say, you certainly do not answer questions very well. Most likely it is because you are too busy being a “shrill, self-appointed astroturf” individual, since there is no group standing behind you.

There were well over 100 Autry supporters at the last city hall meeting, a number of whom, like me, live in Northeast LA, several in Mt. Washington. I am unaware that my organization took an official vote, and it does not appear in the minutes. In fact, I think we were "grandfathered" in, thanks to the efforts of very respected longtime members Ann Walnum and Eliot Sekular. Either way, this hardly means our organization, which has hundreds of members, many of whom have expressed their dissatisfaction, indeed abhorrence, of the "Friends" current strategies, still supports the "Friends." I imagine much the same is true of the rest of the "70+" organizations still claimed as "Friends" but as yet unaccounted for. I support a non-profit partner taking over the campus and operating it a multi-use cultural center. The "Friends" plan, smearing the Autry and threatening lawsuits until they give up, hardly seems like a rational alternative at this point.

You "think" you were grandfathered in? How does that happen? Your "hundreds of members ... have expressed their dissatisfaction, indeed abhorrence?" You "imagine much the same is true" for the other organizations? Yet you have no factual data to back any of that up. For your plan, who is this non-profit partner, and why is it that the Autry is not willing to do this themselves? What are the other uses that your plan includes?

Regarding the plan of the Friends of the Southwest Museum Coalition (no quotes are necessary here Rob, that is the actual name of an organization, not something that you are once again making up), there is a detailed plan available for any and all to see and view via their website.

You can keep trash-talking as many people as you want, Rob, but the facts are clear, and one of those many facts is that you consistently do NOT present any facts, just made-up suppositions with little or no backing. Many of those suppositions are easily shown with minimal research to be farcical at best, outright lies in many instances, or unsubstantiated opinions.

Where are the 70+ organizations supporting the "Friends" - particularly the version of the "Friends" run by the "Steering Committee?" (You are right, I couldn't make this doublespeak up if I tried) And, why have they not shown up in the last month of critical city hearings?

Smear me all you wish - indeed, given the "Friends" history, I would expect nothing less - but these are the questions that the "Friends" have refused to answer since Wednesday night.

Actually, you will see no smearing of you in my comments, just the fact that you are not providing facts, and what you do provide as "facts" are actually opinion and supposition which minimal research proves your inaccuracies. If telling you that you are wrong, and that you fail to provide factual back-up for your "truths" is smearing you, then I guess I am smearing you. In the meantime, have you noticed how few people actually respond to your rants? Maybe that's because all you do is rant without providing any positive information or factual accuracy. I, personally, am glad you are not on my side. It would be much harder to take our position seriously with all that you spout. (That was a smear.)

OK, no real answers then, just more facile evasions and smears.

So where are those 70+ organizations again? Why haven't they shown up in the last month?

OK, no real answers then, just more facile evasions and smears from you as well.

So where are all of your supporters again, Rob? Why haven't they shown up in the last month either?

C'mon, Rob. You really should read your comments a little bit more closely and put up a mirror when you read them back. It actually becomes silly.

The 70+ organizations are still listed on the website. Do you know how many of their representatives called the council offices or emailed or faxed letters of support? Do you know that the members present Wednesday night only represented four organizations, and if that is the case, and you have this information factually, can you please outline for us who all the people were at the meeting Wednesday night and what organizations each and every one of them were representing. You seem to be the only one in the know so go ahead and give us your facts?

Hey, I've got an idea! Why don't you celebrate all this support on the "Friends" website, by publishing all those letters? You've got facts to share? Share them.

I asked who still supports the "Friends,"because I didn't know. So far its the "steering committee," the Homeowner's Alliance and Highland Park Historic Trust, maybe the Arroyo Arts Collective. Again, why the secrecy about who supports you? Why do you need to hide behind an alias? Why won't organizations (and you) stand up and be counted as part of the "Friends?"

And, again, who of the claimed "70+" organizations of the "coalition" still support the "Friends" "steering committee's" smear and lawsuit "negotiating" approach?

L.A. Times calls for fundraising, "Friends" see opportunity to smear Autry - see the comments of Dan Wright and Nicole Possert as the "friendsswmuseum" here to see a whole litany of rumor, innuendo and hearsay stretched into facts before your very eyes: http://discussions.latimes.com/20/lanews/la-me-0701-tobar-20110701/10

No other organizations have shown up. So who are these "Friends" and who do they represent again? And Fringe Member, please spare me, and yourself, the "I know you are but what are we" logic in in anonymous response.

The organization is not hiding behind an alias and clearly states on its website what organizations are members of the Coalition. I guess you are having a problem reading.

I'm hiding behind an alias because I vowed to myself never to debate with you for the very reason that is happening now: your inability to provide facts, and your insistence upon providing your unsubstantiated opinion as a fact. And yet, you get upset when others (me) do not provide facts. As I mentioned earlier, Rob, you need to look into a mirror when you are making your statements, because the fallacies held within them and your inequality in what constitutes a fact depending on which side of the aisle you sit on are abhorred by many people throughout Northeast Los Angeles (to use an example of one of your "facts").

"Rob...the fallacies held within them (your statements) and your inequality in what constitutes a fact depending on which side of the aisle you sit on are abhorred by many people throughout Northeast Los Angeles"

So I ask a couple of simple questions, and here's an attack on my personal integrity - from someone who has taken a "vow" not to engage in public debate without an alias. How very "Friendly."

I am one Mt. Washington resident who finds Mr. Schraff's challenge to this group's agenda and tactics to be very useful and illuminating.

More Dan Wright and "Friends" bluster and spin here, in response to Mt. Washington resident Zara "no alias" Scoville's criticism of the "Friends" - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32148

“like a blood sucker who does not need the shell” Another "Friends" "Steering Committee" member is heard from, again in response to Ms. Scovillle:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32150

For those that prefer FACTS, and are new to this discourse, see yet another "Friends" "Steering Committee" member, Olga Hall, as O.H. here: http://www.theeastsiderla.com/2011/05/city-council-to-review-autry-museum-expansion/#comments

Can't get enough Dan Wright? See this blog created with, yes, another "Friends" "Steering Committee" member, Mark Kenyon: http://blackhatblog.wordpress.com/
Given all the disinformation spread by the "Friends" about "Enron-scale accounting scandals" personally perpetrated by Jackie Autry, and casinos and condos coming to Mount Washington, I particularly treasure "Autry's Misleading Public Relations Campaign," here: http://blackhatblog.wordpress.com/2009/03/14/autry’s-misleading-public-relations-campaign/

For those still tuning in, also see the "Friends" www.autrylies.com site, in particular the smear of another claimed "Friends" "Coalition" supporter, the LA Conservancy. This will put you in the mood for the "Friends" "Autry Lies" channel on youtube.com, where my favorite, complete with nonsensical cowboys and indians broken treaty rhetoric, is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfSriiphA5c&feature=related

So who are these "Friends," other than their "Steering Committee," and the few groups present on Wednesday? Or are the "Friends" all hat and no coalition?

“Friends” Humor - Perhaps after you have viewed the video above, replete with images of nuclear Armageddon, consider this: “We are starting to get some humor into this - but the Cowboys/Army/ Reservations vs the Indians is not a very humorous period or source...but then we have baseball, cowboys, and Jackie Autry to use as a source for Humor...coming in near future.”

From “Friends” “Steering Committee” member Clyde “Tom” Williams. Wade through the rest at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32138

The mind boggles.

Here’s Dan Wright and “Friends” evoking the Trail of Tears on Christmas Eve, 2009. This is right after the “Friends” and NIMBY Loz Feliz homeowner allies cost L.A. a $150+-million museum to house the Southwest Museum collection. (On a lawn, right next to Interstate 5, 100 yards from the off-ramp, across the ginormous parking lot from the zoo entrance – which the “Friends” and NIMBYs claimed was valuable “open green” space.)

See: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/27109 (“Friends” “Steering Committee” member Olga Hall, as well as critics of the ““Friends” also appear on this thread.)

I’m going to speculate that this result and continuation of nonsensical ”cowboys and indians” rhetoric must not only have been very upsetting to the Autry, but to the native American groups that stand behind the Autry and its stewardship of the artifacts to this day. (For those who may not be familiar with the Trail of Tears, here’s a simple introduction: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_tears)

So what organizations continue to support the "Friends" "Steering Committee" rhetoric, other than those present Wednesday night? And where have they been for the past month, and, indeed last several years?

So here’s Dan Wright today, trashing the only group that ever accomplished anything with the Autry, the Southwest Society: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32163

Recall that Mr. Wright, in addition to being a member of the “Friends,” is in fact the “co-president" of its “steering committee.” Mr. Wright also seems to have forgotten his claims, very prevalent in “Friends” propaganda of the time, of a “Enron-scale accounting scandal,” and that Attorney General Jerry Brown would intervene on behalf of the “Friends.” He also seems to have misremembered the Southwest Society’s successful efforts to get $11.5 million in funding for the Mt. Washington campus through a community college bond, funds now being spent in other locations – odd because Mr. Wright led the local campaign against this bond measure. Mr. Wright’s “either/or” argument is also fascinating because in fact he has led the effort at every turn to display ANY of the collection in Griffith Park (supported by Loz Feliz NIMBYists and their calls and letters….) Finally, I find it surprising that councilman Huizar does not regret costing the city a major new museum or the 14th district’s disastrous relationship with the Autry National Center and Southwest Museum, all at the behest of the “Friends.” But I guess we’ll have to take Mr. Wright’s word for it.

Here’s Chris Howard, on a local listserve he controls, praising my views in 2005 and quoting me at length, but bemoaning my change of position:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32180

Mr. Howard is absolutely correct. In 2005, I supported the “Friends” efforts. At that time, those efforts were led by Eliot Sekular and Ann Walnum, longtime Mt. Washington residents notable for their contribution to our community and the Mount Washington Association. Years of negotiating later led to the creation of the “Southwest Society,” including councilman Huizar, the mayor, and a number of other elected officials. The “Friends” then reconstituted themselves under a “Steering Committee,” led by Dan Wright and Nicole Possert, and launched a non-stop campaign of smears and legal threats against the Autry. The Autry, meanwhile, has spent tens of millions restoring the collection and building, and has enjoyed the unswerving support of native American peoples.

Reasonable people, faced with new facts and behavior, change their minds.

Mr. Howard also provides a link to a history of the Mt. Washington Association I wrote some six years ago, from which his quote above is extracted, here: http://www.mtwashington.org/node/4

This link, should you be interested, will give you a decent thumbnail of the Mount Washington Association’s history (“The Voice of Mt. Washington for Over 50 Years,” as it says on the newsletter) including the Association’s role in Gold Line Safety improvements (litigated – and won), the Self-Realization Fellowship controversy, and much, much more.

Also note that it’s been a week and all the “Friends” still haven’t answered what should be a simple question – Where are the 70+ organizations claimed by the “Steering Committee” as supporters and who have been MIA in the last month? Mr. Howard claims “voluminous” correspondence. I certainly respect individual privacy, but why not publicize any organizations that still support the “Steering Committee's” rhetoric and repeated threats of lawsuits? After all, as Mr. Howard’s nelalist post above demonstrates, the pre- “Steering Committee” version of the “Friends” was well publicized and well supported.

(And is it just me, or is it also odd that Mr. Howard is responding to this Patch story, video, and thread without providing a link for his readers on his list?)

“Friends” Come Clean? Here’s Dan Wright’s account of how the “Friends” split and the “Steering Committee” got Councilman Huizar to support their "negotiation” strategy. Of course, you may wish to read with a grain of salt, considering this is the very person who invented the “Enron-scale accounting scandal,” and is still threatening several rather fabulous legal actions. (I also said that I currently serve as president of the Mount Washington Association in city meetings, and I claimed to represent the Association only in the “Coalition” meeting last week. I’m on the record on each occasion.)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32184

What’s interesting about this, other than the spin in an attempt to get people to ignore the “Friends’” failed rhetoric and lawsuit threats, is that Mr. Wright names current supporters of the “Friends,” “Coalition.” In addition to Wednesday's gathering, they are “the Route 66 group” and “etc.” (And a few local neighborhood councils, powerless as city bodies in the face of the city council's recent action.)

The “Route 66 group” is led by Scott Piotrowski, yet another “Steering Committee,” member and tour operator who wants to bring “500,000” tourists a year to Mt. Washington. So who are “etc.” again, Mr. Wright and “Friends”? And why haven’t they, as opposed to the indeed voluminous rhetoric of the “Friends” “Steering Committee,” been heard from?

The “Steering Committee” will not be silenced! http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32186

Dan Wright again acknowledges that the Mount Washington Association has had problems with the “Friends” tactics for some time, and that the “Coalition” fractured long ago. Mr. Wright also notes: “The Steering Committee consists of those persons who have given the most time and effort to the goals of the Coalition.” I would add that the self-appointed “Steering Committee” seems to be the only people dedicating any time whatsoever to supporting the “Friends” promise of a continued attack campaign using nonsensical Cowboys and Indians rhetoric, smears of Jackie Autry, and threats of lawsuits.

Hector Tobar also seems to me to be asking for the abandonment of such tactics in his L.A. Times article, and a genuine effort at fundraising by the community and larger Los Angeles not for lawsuits, but for keeping something of the old Museum alive as an artifact in itself - despite huge problems he credits the Autry for addressing: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0701-tobar-20110701,0,2281984.column?page=2

The Southwest Museum needs real friends, not Autry enemies.

Marino Pascal's rather droll commentary on the "Friends" tactics, see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/32185, reminds me that Michael Possert, creator of Autrylies.com and the like-monikered youtube channel, shot video of Ann Walnum ejecting me from the last "public" "Friends" "Coalition" meeting, held several years ago after the last "Friends" debacle. Like last Wednesday, this was also a pre-announced coalition meeting, in this case featuring Councilman Huizar.

I'm sure Mr. Possert still has this video, and I'm confident that in the interests of transparency the "Friends" will be happy to post it here or on the autrylies.com youtube channel, as it would provide valuable context for those seeking morel information on the "Steering Committee's" notions of coalition building.

Dear Fringe, Many newer inhabitants of Mt. Washington believe that it is time for us to move away from the crotchety self-righteousness and failed politics of a previous generation. A wise elder doesn't need to be told when to get off the stage. Consider Mr. Schraff to be your new neighbor's Vaudeville hook.

Astroturf, or a fake grass roots campaign, seems more descriptive in the case of the "Friends" under the “Steering Committee,” and so I have used it here. (Although fraud, at least in the colloquial sense, certainly seems to apply.) As far as the "Steering Committee's" practice of smears and legal fabulations, extortion or harassment might be closer to the mark.

And “Fringe,” sorry you don’t like my writing style, but we all can’t be Phi Beta Kappa English majors. And what does Dan Wright do for a living again? CEQA litigation.

Please quit the pissing match. I would like to know where the 11.5 million went that was attributed as raised the Southwest Society. and what is the Southwest Society doing now to open the Southwest Museum? Thanks.

correction above "as raised by the Southwest Society"

See Marino Pascal's common-sense overview on this entire issue, including the $11.5 million question, here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nelalist/message/31997

Councilman Huizar has repudiated his participation in the Southwest Society, and their letter of understanding with the Autry, at the behest of the "Friends." This seems to have killed it dead. Too bad.

Pascal's reportage/analysis on this issue is devastating. Why has Huizar succumbed to the rhetoric of these Friends? How can we go about changing his position?

Well, I hope some open discourse about, and demonstration of, the “Steering Committee’s” methods may give Councilman Huizar and his staff more insight. Also, Councilman Huizar’s Chief of Staff is Ana Cubas, by all means send her an e-mail at Ana.Cubas@lacity.org

In the larger picture, perhaps a more balanced approach to this complex issue will yet encourage the emergence of a third party, such as Occidental College. Who knows, given less vitriol a bigger player like USC could also emerge. I might even hope a long-term, perhaps even friendly, relationship with the Autry may be possible in the fullness of time.